My friend and I are planning a trip to southern France/northern Spain, 2-1/2 weeks at end of June/beginning of July. Probably 1-1/2 weeks in Spain and 1 week in France. We are flying into Toulouse. We are hoping to use public transportation but it%26#39;s beginning to look like we might have to end up renting a car. Necessary??
I thought we%26#39;d first base ourselves in Toulouse (or somewhere close) and seeAlbi and possibly Cords-sur-Ciel, possibly another sight. We might then go east to Provence (or perhaps swing back here after Spain on our way back to Toulouse to fly home?). I%26#39;d originally thought of Avignon as a base, but have heard varying reports of its attractiveness, same of Arles. St. Remy sounds very nice, as does Les Baux (though hard to get to by public and also highly touristed).
As I try to figure out which places in France to see (Pau? Bayonne? Perpignan? Aigues-Mortes?) I get stomped because I can%26#39;t tell how one gets from France to Spain via train (and/or bus). I see posts which mention the train from Marseilles. Are there other ways across the border? It seemed like an attractive plan to make a loop--going west from Toulouse first, then taking a different route east (possibly going through Andorra for a day) to Provence, and then back to Toulouse. I simply can%26#39;t see where one can find this information. Everything seems so divided into Spain or France. Or--people going to Spain from France seem to spend time in the Riviera, which doesn%26#39;t interest me, or be heading in from Italy.
I%26#39;d love some quick help!!!
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I%26#39;ve taken the train from Avignon-Nimes-Montpelier-Narbonne-Perpignan to Barcelona and on to Madrid. Toulouse and Marseille make easy stops. The south of France is well connected by rail.
Here%26#39;s a map.
…about.com/d/…france-rail-map-600.png
RailEurope%26#39;s website used to have an easy to read map but they%26#39;ve now gone to something that looks useless.
%26quot;Everything seems so divided into Spain or France.%26quot;
That%26#39;s because most of the tracks in Spain are a different gauge than they are in France. When you get to the border. You have to physically get off one train with all of your luggage, hoof it through customs, and then onto the train waiting on the adjacent tracks. With a US passport, it should be easy to get through customs. But the queue might look daunting and slow because others, like Spaniards themselves, don%26#39;t get through customs so easily.
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%26quot;Everything seems so divided into Spain or France.%26quot;
It%26#39;s also because things tend to slow down, way down in Spain.
Trains are quite punctual and fast in France unless somebody%26#39;s on strike.
Spain is a different world.
For Grenoble to Perpignan with all of those stops, I could have done it in a day. From the France-Spain border to Madrid, about the same distance, with a stop in Barcelona (without getting off) it was an overnighter.
There are faster services that cross the border but I haven%26#39;t tried them.
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You should be able to get information from the French and Spanish railway operators%26#39; sites.
France: www.voyages-sncf.com but stick with French. If you switch to English, you get another site that does not list all the trains.
Spain: www.renfe.es/horarios/english/index.html
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Thanks, all, for your info. I guess that%26#39;s most of the problem: with most international train trips in Europe there are trains that go from country to country. But not only do you have to search on separate railroad sites (the France railroad map is fine but it doesn%26#39;t even show Spain!, so unless you were already up on where the border is, and where in particular you can cross, it%26#39;s not helpful), even the guidebooks and trip sites such as this one don%26#39;t seem to delve into it. My friend and I were assuming there were additional ways to cross over into Spain than going through Barcelona; we hadn%26#39;t planned on going as far east in Spain as Barcelona.
Are there no alternatives?
Or are those alternatives all by car?
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I really think you should rent a car. Your options become almost unlimited and you can go where and when you please.
The roads are great and you%26#39;ll get to places you%26#39;d never get to by train.
Rob
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My preferred site for European timetables is www.reiseauskunft.bahn.de which is the database of the German railways and is available in numerous languages. Downside is that you cannot buy tickets from this site if your journey does not involve Germany. But the timetable information is comprehensive.
There are only three rail routes across the border between France and Spain.
On the western side the French trains runs over the border to the Spanish town of Irun. From Irun there is a sparse service off towards Madrid plus some local trains. There is also at Irun the much better network of the private operator Euskotren, which connects the Basque country. Their website www.euskotren.es is very good and of course RENFE the national operator ignores them.
There is a little known route in the centre, where trains connect by accident rather than design. South from Toulouse are the local French trains to La Tour de Carol, right on the border with Spain and not far from Andorra for that matter. From La Tour de Carol local Spanish trains run all the way to Barcelona. You really have to dig deep for the times for the latter, as rather oddly, it is considered part of the Barcelona suburban network despite being a 3 hour journey! www.renfe.es/cercanias/barcelona/index.html
Finally on the east is the route Perpignan - Cerbere - Portbou - Barcelona. This is the only route where trains actually run over the border meaningfully, as there is a smart piece of equipment that changes the wheels from French to Spanish gauge while the trains are on the move. Having said that, there are only two trains a day Montpellier - Barcelona and an night train to and from Paris. Local trains stop at the border and most of them do not connect one with the other.
A new high speed line is slowly taking shape in that region but it will be five or six years before it is opened.
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Cubsur, thank you so much--that was exactly the information I was looking for. (Knew about the Barcelona route, which was all I seemed to find info on, and I knew there had to be other ways in!).
And Rob, we are strongly thinking about renting a car, though I personally hate to drive, especially someplace new (let alone a foreign country), and cars are highly inconvenient in the cities. But to see the lovely villages in the countryside--that%26#39;s the best way to go. We may rent a car for just part of the trip (or two parts, even) to compromise/ get the best of both worlds.
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Further to my post yesterday, I have a feeling that the Spanish rail line from La Tour de Carol towards Barcelona has been closed down! Sorry, I had internet connection problems yesterday so could not update any earlier.
The station no longer appears in the list of destinations. In fact nowhere north of the town of Vic appears any longer.
I am asking the question in another forum.
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I really enjoy driving in France.
The roads are in great shape and well marked and you%26#39;re right, a car is the only way to get to many places.
A problem you may have is that it is often difficult and expensive to rent for just one day. There is a train/car rental combination available that may suit your needs... try a Google...
Rob
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Confirmed that the rail line from La Tour de Carol towards Barcelona is now closed for modernisation until November 2009.
Buses will run in place of trains between La Tour de Carol and La Molina.
The temporary timetable can be viewed here
http://web02.renfe.es/u13/MTR/UltimaHora.nsf/vDoc000/CC15FB383B86F147C1257592003AE85A/$FILE/Cartell%20LA%20MOLINA.pdf
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