Was thinking Madrid-Bordeaux-Paris for a fall trip. Talked to a winemaker who said no to Bordeaux as too touristy.
Any suggestions on an authentic/charming destination in France to add to our Paris itinerary? Wine region would be nice but not a dealbreaker.
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well frankly ALL of the charming parts of France are well touristed -- I doubt Bourdeaux is any more touristy than the Dordogne or Burgundy or the Loire -- all places we have visited and enjoyed
We love the Dordogne for the lazy canoe travel down the rivers, and particularly for the prehistoric caves (and fantastic museum of prehistory) and the outstanding food
And we love Burgundy for its charming villages and countryside.
And the Loire chateaux are worth a visit -- I am sure Bourdeaux has its charms as well.
but there are no enchanting authentic villages that haven%26#39;t been well discovered by tourists. or by retiring ex-pats.
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Hi --
I don%26#39;t understand the use of the word %26quot;authentic%26quot; to describe a place outside a theme park. If it%26#39;s there and was built locally by locals, it%26#39;s authentic whatever.
If you mean that you want medieval whatsis, you%26#39;re stuck with safety issues that resulted in the modernization of certain aspects of buildings (to keep them from falling down), as well as the alterations required for the installation of plumbing and electricity.
Many cities are completely lacking in really old buildings because Napoleon wanted wide boulevards to show off his troops or because in all the various wars, there was a plethora of %26quot;redevelopment%26quot;.
I%26#39;ve never found Bordeaux to be too touristy. I think it%26#39;s a charming city with all its authentic neighbourhoods from different centuries. And if wines from the region are your favourites, what%26#39;s the point of going to the Rhone, which is also full of tourists in the summer time, or Champagne, which is also full of tourists in the summer time, or Bergundy, which is also full of tourists in the summer time, or, or, or, or,...
You can say fall trip, but unless you%26#39;re talking about November, when you%26#39;ll still run into some tourists, you%26#39;re simply not going to be free of travelers. Tourists travel when they can, and if that%26#39;s in November or December or January, that%26#39;s when they%26#39;ll get off the plane or train, asking how do I get to...
September is now simply the last part of summer, and one of the busiest times for tourists in France and Italy; October is the time of the harvest when you can stand outside the vineyards and watch the grapes being cut, but not tour any cellars because they%26#39;re too busy trying to make wine.
The truth is that you%26#39;re about 45 years too late to find areas that are undiscovered (read without tourists). In order to fund their lifestyle, the hippies wrote the guide books that whet folks%26#39; appetites, the tour companies are all way ahead of you, the wine regions discovered marketing themselves as a way of marketing their product, and I%26#39;ve never found a region that wasn%26#39;t too touristy, in the season, especially if Bordeaux is the definition of that term.
St. Emilion, for example is always full of wine loving travellers, 12 months a year, but it%26#39;s still an absolutely charming place. If you stay locally, you%26#39;ll be there before it fills with travellers, and after they go home. It%26#39;s a UNESCO World Heritage Site, so there aren%26#39;t too many changes going on.
I%26#39;d say try Picardy which has the advantage of being close to CDG, or Brittany, although if you%26#39;re on the coast too late into the fall, the winds will blow you sideways - mind you that can happen any month of the year there.
Get out your guidebook and read up on the western and northern coastal areas, and see what appeals. Or, perhaps the Camargue even though it%26#39;s Provencal, will pique your interest.
I simply can%26#39;t think of an area in which I didn%26#39;t hear a great deal of English and German all around me, even into November. There were other languages, too, but they%26#39;re not as easily identifiable as English and German are in the middle of polyglot, as it were.
I think your trip sounds fabulous, but it%26#39;s going to require more research on your part, even just to set some parameters by example to give the forum specialists some guidance.
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Completely agree with the above posts.
There are few locations in France which have yet to be inundated with tourists (possible Auvergne). Bordeaux is no more touristy than any other location and perhaps less so than many I could suggest. You might want to give it serious consideration as it probably fits rather well with your overall travel scheme.
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Thanks for the guidance.
1BCTraveler: I guess my use of the word %26quot;authentic%26quot; came from my own experience living in a tourist town and having visited many others. I personally grow weary of one t-shirt shop after another since my overseas travel is limited, I want to target it as well as possible.
As far as Bordeaux goes, the negative opinion expressed was the gentleman to whom I spoke; not my own. I was drawn to it for its historical significance and the wine aspect would be a nice add-on.
Appreciate all the suggestions.
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I don%26#39;t understand the use of the word %26quot;authentic%26quot; to describe a place outside a theme park. If it%26#39;s there and was built locally by locals, it%26#39;s authentic whatever
---------end of quote
well you ought to visit Collonges-la-Rouge then -- one of those %26#39;beautiful villages%26#39; that is so restored and touristized that there isn%26#39;t even a place to buy a loaf of bread (our definition of an authentic place that really doesn%26#39;t exist any more except as a theme park) in all the words to describe it %26#39;real%26#39; or %26#39;authentic%26#39; do not leap to mind
unfortunately most of the quaint places are no longer all that much more authentic than Epcot Center -- tis a pity
and people like Rick Steves are busy ruining whatever spots are left -- having hiked the Cinque Terre before he made it a punch in the travel ticket for middle aged Americans, and seen what it has become since, I mourn the days when I could enjoy relatively unspoiled places before all those other tourists found them
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In the fall, the tourist populations are down considerably from that of July and August...but no, you%26#39;ll never be rid of all of them.
The biggest drawback to a wine region in the fall is that it is the time of the vidange (harvest) -- the houses are mostly closed, as they%26#39;re all working pell-mell to get the grapes harvested and into the presses before it storms/frosts/hails/suffers a gale or otherwise gets hit by some natural disaster -- so the tasting rooms are closed, and even talking on the phone about buying something can be a challenge.
On the upside? You get terrific photos of grape harvesters at work (both machine and human) -- you can wander the streets of Champagne when the aroma of sweet grapes fills the air -- and the weather is usually stellar (unless one of the above natural disasters is wreaking havoc).
What about the Bergerac region? It%26#39;s definitely less heavily-traveled than Bordeaux, and the reds produced there are absolutely lovely -- it%26#39;s not commonly known that the claret that the British imported by the millions of gallons in the 18th century was produced in the Bergerac region...when the Bergerac growers had better PR and more marketing dollars than Bordeaux. Now the situation is reversed, and Bordeaux gets the dollars and the tourists.
Bonus of visiting the Bergerac region is fabulous food (how can you NOT have great food when you%26#39;re in the middle of walnut production, truffle production, and foie gras production?) friendly, welcoming people, and gorgeous scenery.
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Just south of Bordeaux (and about an hour north of Pau) are the regions of St Mont, Madiran and Pacherenc du Vic Bihl. Some great wine here! and not too many tourists. You will defo need a car though.
It%26#39;s in the heart of the Gascony area and truly picturesque, dotted with abandoned chateaux and miles of vineyards. A good winery to start at is Plaimont (www.plaimont.com) - they are in St Mont). From there you can go to Ch. St Go or Ch Sabazan. One of the most famous is Ch Montus (but it costs too!). You can google these places for exact whereabouts.
Oh yeah, the regions are kind of broken down like this:
Madiran - big reds mostly made from Tannat grape
St Mont - lots of different things - red with Tannat, Cab Franc and Cab Sauv; whites with Arrufiac, Petit Corbu, Ugni Blanc
Gascon – light refreshing wine made with Colombard
Pacherenc - specialises in dessert wine – excellent!!
Basically lots of different wines made from indigenous grapes you might not have heard of…
Oh and be ready to eat duck and loads of it. Also it is the home of foie gras (if you like that sort of thing)
There are tonnes of gites and b%26amp;b%26#39;s too. I%26#39;ve stayed at Ch du Projan (owner is a chef and cooks you a different dinner every night). Also stayed at and took a cooking class at Ch de Boscou. You thought that Native Americans did loads with a buffalo…well in Gascony they do the same with a duck!
Lot’s of history in the area too, like D’Artagnan was born in one of the towns (can’t remember which but think it was Auch).
I love the area as it is not on the wine travel map and really is the “pays” of France.
Bon degustations!
-winolou
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I love the Bordeaux region and don%26#39;t find it any more over run with tourist than Napa or Sonoma. One of my favorite towns in France is St. Emilion, really beautiful and historic and easy to get around on foot.
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Hold on you guys! I was raised in Bordeaux, worked and lived in the Dordogne and my family originates from Auvergne. Bordeaux had been restored and renovated, first in the late 1970s then again--and superbly too-- in 2000-2003 when a new very fancy tram system was built and MORE streets and squares were pedestrianized. At any given time there are many more locals than tourists..sure Rue Ste Catherine on a Saturday afternoon is shoulders to shoulders but there are lots of nice streets without too many people. The whole of the Southwest, around Bordeaux, in Gascony, in the Dordogne etc. are full of bastides, also called new towns as they were built within a few years during the Middle Ages, with streets at straight angles from one another etc. (new towns compared to Bordeaux, Toulouse etc. that go back well over 2000 years). Trouble is you need a car to explore them. If you are looking for less touristy places the Auvergne fits the bill. this is the only area where I had to rent a car as neither trains nor inter-cities buses were practical. St Flour, Salers, Aurillac.. and tiny villages in between.. are interesting enough and the landscapes both grand and gloomy in a fall light.
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We found a wonderful place in the Champagne region called chateau de etoges. www.chateau-etoges.com
its about 700 years old %26amp; everything is still authentic %26amp; feels like a step back in time. Just make sure you stay in the chateau %26amp; not the orangery. The restaurant is a real gem.
You will need a car to get around, its about a half hour drive from epernay and there is a champagne house almost at the front gate. When you first get there it seems a little shabby but then you realise its just the way it was hundreds of years ago. If you want authentic %26amp; charming this is it.
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